I say that if the individual chooses, feel free. I hate these prohibitionist views we American's have. First it was alcohol and now it is drugs. Let's put it this way to start, Europe has no age limit on beer and wine and a very low age limit on hard liquor. And they have less problems than we do. As a matter of fact, they have dramatically less problems. George Washington and virtually everybody back then and prior grew hemp and marijuana. American Indians still use halucinogens for spiritual journies. All these perspectives that drugs and alcohol are bad PERIOD are really starting to piss me off. They all originate from the Puritanical point of view, but even the Aemish haven't taken it as far as we have. I believe that natural drugs should be used as one wishes because are natural. They come from the Mother. I also think it is almost essential to use halucinogens on spiritual quests becuase it is the Spirit World, not the physical world you are journeying to, so you can't expect to interact with the spirits if you can't percieve them.

I kinda view drug use in religious practices like I vew electronic music. Its sometimes an easier way to get the desired effect, but its not fair to denounce it because the road was easier. Like when dear old dad decides to take a shortcut that turns sour, we can get mad at the people who stayed on the highway. Besides that, enough of this "Weed is harmfull". So is Bacon, so is Ice Cream, and so is living in a large city. As for the reputation drugs bring, the point isn't to appear so spotless in regards to THEIR ideals as to simply achieve purity according to our own codes and be content with that. After all, public opinion is just another form of peer pressure, right?

natural drugs: er, well opium and cocaine grow naturally too.... I think it's up to the person. maybe for some people it enhances their abilities, but in my experience, I think that too many people get f**ed up and can't do anything mentally. It's a huge mental block and consumes a lot of energy. And it's a waste of money.

This is one of my favorite subjects. i wish I could find someone to write to to talk about such things with.

I have read the comments made about using natural drugs in rituals and meditation and there is much to be said about the spiritual effectiveness I have found with marijuana. Of course there is controversy about this issue and it might possibly always exist, but there is a big difference between drug abuse and using for a specific purpose in ritual. In solitary work, i have found that smoking marijuana is a meaningful tool for me, but my opinion is only represented by myself and of my Self....Meditation and visualization are what I use them for.

If ever marijuana is to control other aspects of life, to exist and to maintain for example, then it is your Higher self that needs help.

Of course, your decision is up to you and the right to choose is of more importance than which path you are on right now.

Well well well....

I've been asked this many times meself and my automatic response is "NO". Although I have a particular fondness for some "naturals" I would never put myself in a situation where I had to mix the two. Do Christians go to church stoned (well maybe some do) not bloody likely! I will admit that alot of thinking can be accomplished whilst in *LA-LA Land* but it is not the way to connect to your spirituality and should never be used during ritual or magickal practise.

If you require drugs to connect to your spiritual side I recommend you seek counselling and soon!!
Peace Love Light and Laughter in all your days...

I feel fairly strongly about this one...in my opinion drugs have no place in society in general, but especially not in the craft. First of all, if we are ever going to change this stigma of an "evil" witch, we need to start setting a good example. By letting any substance alter our decisions, or influence our actions, we are only asking not to be taken seriously. By using any drug, natural or not, you are adding something to your body that wasnt intended to go there. If we neede these chemicals, we would have been born with them. And one more point, whether you practice the craft or not, our children deserve a better example. Blessed be!

I have always felt that using any kind of mind altering substance is, in a sense, cheating. I have heard of people being "enlightened" when using drugs. And, I have also heard of people being enlightened all on their own. To me, it's like skipping ahead. Moving to levels that you're not ready for. If we skip steps, we miss the important lessons in between. I feel, if we are ready to be enlightened, we will be without the use of drugs. But, I'm no expert. That's just what I think.

I feel that natural drugs (or any type of mind-altering drugs for that matter) have no place ANYWHERE in the world because there are far too many people who couldn't use them just for medicinal or spiritual purposes and would, on the whole, abuse them royally. One of my best friends died recently from what appeared to be cardiac arrest. He was 18 years old. The autopsy proved that it was indeed cardiac arrest: and that it was heroin-induced. He was also on pot, shrooms, acid, LSD, and ectasy. And those are just the ones I was aware of.

I also have personal experience with drug abuse, as my grandfather was an abusive alcoholic and a smoker (until he died 7 years ago of lung cancer and liver failure) and my father was an alcoholic and addicted to pot and speed.

I myself was never addicted, but did abuse heroin, LSD, ectasy, shrooms, and acid for several months two years ago, had to kick the habit when I moved and lost my drug connections, and crashed hard with a capital H. Unfortuantely, at the time I became addicted, I was suicidal anyway or probably never would have got hooked. My friend (the one whom I mentioned earlier) got me started on acid and I went all the way on everything. I was lucky that I moved, even though at the time it heightened my depression, because if I hadn't I would most likely still be addicted, and I would have watched my friend die and then probably took my own life.

When this friend died, none of my other friends had the decency to inform me, since they were all to f**king stoned. I found out two months after his funeral, when I had decided to call another friend and see what the old crowd was up to.

I think it is safe to say that drugs would definately break the Wiccan Rede, which clearly states "Harm none". All of the above are only my opinons and personal experiences. I will close my rambling with these final words of wisdom.

DRUGS ARE NOT WORTH THE RISK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This subject is certainly controversial, timely (with California and Arizona's voters letting the government know we do NOT like what we do in our private lives be the business of "Big Brother"). It is also a subject I have keen interest in, because my husband has been convicted on marijuana charges and we've gone through hell and back with this idiotic prohibitionist mentality and the "War on Drugs". Needless to say, I firmly believe that the question of whether mind altering/expanding substances have a place in the Craft is absolutely up to the individual. I am not a regular user of marijuana but my husband is, and I take issue with the closeminded attitude that "drugs make one stupid and lazy". Those adjectives do NOT describe my life-partner at all, and he's been using pot daily for 15 years or better. I don't agree that pot is "the" gateway drug either. You could survey 15 marijuana smokers and ask them what drugs they tried after using pot, and I am absolutely certain that some have not moved on from pot and 'shrooms. However, I'd be willing to bet my new athame that each and every one of them used alcohol and tobacco before going on to pot and psilocybin. And alcohol and tobacco related deaths so overwhelm the number of people that die from heroin, cocaine, meth, etc, (no deaths have ever, in 10,000 years of medical recorded history, been reported for using pot, by the way). Since this is a somewhat anonymous forum, I will share that the substances that keep me clear headed and aware, that I have no qualms about using in moderation during ritual for mind expansion are meth (crank) and LSD....both of which are manufactured. This does NOT mean that I can only achieve the place I want to be while using these substances, but in certain situations, these drugs as well as mushrooms and marijuana can be of positive effect. Most rituals I do with no aid from drugs of any kind. I am tired of the old diatribe about marijuana being this deadly horrible "drug" that must be eradicated at all costs. Sorry, but the hemp plant is one of the most hardy weeds in the world and grows in nearly any climate and under any conditions. Long, long before it was made illegal (in 1937), marijuana was smoked and the hemp plant it is derived from was used for every imaginable purpose, from clothing to rope to fuel to food. The force that criminalized it and is responsible for the incarceration of so many wonderful people then and now is the same....industries that would lose a great deal of money if hemp were once again legalized. As a Wiccan and as such a lover of personal freedom to live as I wish and abide the Rede in every aspect of life, even though I don't care much for marijuana, certainly believe that whoever finds that it "works" for them should have every right to use this gift of Nature as they wish.

No. I don't think that you should use natural drugs, or any drugs for that matter. The wiccan rede states AND YE HARM NONE DO WHAT YE WILL this means harming others as well as yourself. And drugs deffinatly hurt everyone in contact with them.
Ladyhawk

The comments thus far on this question are fairly homogenous -- generally people believe that they are harmful and/or not necessary. These types of drugs have been used for thousands of years in religious ceremonies to induce trance. That is the big difference between then and today. People now use them to escape reality. However, we do have to face our own cultural bias with these drugs (war on drugs, etc), and that we have been taught for so long that they are "bad" that it is ingrained into us. As many others have voiced, they need to be used in rituals only, and with specific religious purpose in mind, lest one become a slave to the drug and lose sight of the Goddess and God. As always, it comes down to personal choice, and that choice should be respected.

The whole point of ritual and ceremony is to achieve gestalt with Deity. to this end, we can not allow our selves to cloud our vision and senses with compounds which hamper judgement and perspective.

I don't think I could ever take my participation in ritual serious if I knew others had removed them selves from full involvement through alcohol or mind altering drug.
Witness

I think it's most important to look at using drugs this way: Is it harmful to yourself? I don't think drugs has any place in wicca. When the wiccan rede says "harm none" that incudes yourself, and therfore I don't think it's right to use harmful drugs. But it's up to people to make there own desisions, and if they feel that it isn't harming them, then they can go ahead and use them. Drugs should be used safely though, and only for ritual use, not partying. Just my opinion!!!

Natural drugs are okay as long as they are part of a ritual or ceremony or are used in a spiritual manner--instead of for party purposes. This is because each contains a spirit/angel/ally/entity--or whatever you may call it that is "in charge" of that substance. Failure to honor the being in charge can be dangerous.

Experimentation can be dangerous too. Portions of the peyote buttons are poisonous and magic mushroom dosage can be iffy. If you're going to use these things you need an experienced guide to show you the way.

Alcohol is also a useful drug if properly used.

Drugs are useful in getting to the astral planes more quickly; allow you to bring someone along who is inexperienced; & may help you get into places not normally accessed. BUT, IN THE LONG RUN, THEY ARE NOT USUALLY NEEDED.

I feel that these drugs may help to open your mind to astral travel and seeing the Fay folk. Unfortunately, people abuse them and that is why they are illegal. Nothing is good to do in excess.

This is a touchy subject. I have to answer for myself. Coming from a home where there was alcohol abuse I have a somewhat different slant on the issue. First of all I would have to say that we don't really need mind altering drugs to reach different states of consciousness. We can do it by meditation and breathing.

My brother was heavily into drugs. He started out with pot and when that wasn't enough for him he moved on to other drugs. It eventually killed him at age 21. There are too many deaths due to drugs. I feel they have no place in a life affirming religion such as Wicca. It is too easy to get addicted no matter how careful you are. Our bodies are our temples. We must treat them as gifts from the Goddess. I will end with this statement- This is only my opinion. The nice thing about the craft is that we can choose our own path.

To use a foriegn substance like halucenegenics to aid you in your worship would in my opinion do more harm than good, you will not have a clear and sound mind, so how are you supose to be in control of ones self, not to mention the Rede, the state you are in speaks for it self you are halucinating, so there is no reality there. if you have a strong fate and you believe in yourself and what your believes are, why would you even try to cundure up something that is merely a false interpetation. there is no room for drugs, other than prescribed ones in any belief or religion, at least not in my opinion.

I wasn't going to comment until I saw one poster type "cocaine is a natural drug." Cocaine is made by man from the coca leaves, the leaves being the "natural" drug. My philosophy allows for natural drugs (plants, molds, fungus, roots, etc., i.e. substances that have *not* been altered by any process), and if legislation was proposed I would tend to vote my philosophy. As far as psychotropic substances being used in ceremonial settings I think they might be used for seeking visions, meditation, VisionQuesting, etc. As for seasonal celebrations and regular full- or new-moon rituals, I can only say that I personally would not take psychotropics.

I think that drugs of any sort, natural or synthetic, have little or any place in the magickal community. The rede states "An ye harm NONE", and most, if not all of these drugs kill brain cells, lung cells, etc. and can lead to early death and many other health problems. Many things that hurt us we have little control over. This we do control. I think they may have some value for vision quest, etc. but that those benefits can be attained through other channels (meditation, etc.) as well as through the drugs. I feel this way in part due to my very anti-drug stance anyway, and partially because of seeing so many people (my parents included) suffer from the effects of some of these drugs.

I feel that these drugs may help to open your mind to astral travel and seeing the Fay folk. Unfortunately, people abuse them and that is why they are illegal. Nothing is good to do in excess.

I feel as if natural drugs do have a place in all the world--including the Craft. As long, as these drugs are used for medicinal reasons and not just so a person can get something spiritually from a "drug" source. In other words, you have to have your spirituality come from with-in,not from some other source.

Natural drugs are okay as long as they are part of a ritual or ceremony or are used in a spiritual manner--instead of for party purposes. This is because each contains a spirit/angel/ally/entity--or whatever you may call it that is "in charge" of that substance. Failure to honor the being in charge can be dangerous.

Experimentation can be dangerous too. Portions of the peyote buttons are poisonous and magic mushroom dosage can be iffy. If you're going to use these things you need an experienced guide to show you the way.

Alcohol is also a useful drug if properly used.

Drugs are useful in getting to the astral planes more quickly; allow you to bring someone along who is inexperienced; & may help you get into places not normally accessed. BUT, IN THE LONG RUN, THEY ARE NOT USUALLY NEEDED.

I feel that the use of marajuana for true medical reasons would be like any other prescription drug. If it helps someone who is ill feel better until that time when their bodies are ready to take over the task again, then so be it. But to use for "enhnacement", no. I think that a spiritual high should be 100% spiritual. Otherwise, you have no way of knowing what percent is real and what percent was the drugs "speaking".

For me I do not use drugs in the craft or in my life. I do not feel drugs are worth the risk of breaking the law and going to jail.

I have thought long and hard about your question...very provocative! Thank you. Yes, there's that whole historical perspective that folks use to reference their defense of drug use before ritual or while in ritual. Personally, I prefer to be clear and focused while engaged in ritual work. I have learned to "alter" my consciousness by other methods to achieve an end result that is much like "being high". Some may say that "getting high" before ritual helps them to concentrate. Since I was a child of the 70's and have (hopefully) grown wiser with the passing of the years, I have learned from experience that drug use before ritual does not work for me. Clarity works for me...and clarity requires no drug inducements.
Chris

Merry Meet,
I don't think it is the substances themselves which are at issue here as much as how we relate to them. We live in a culture that encourages obsessive/compulsive behavior. Our culture also encourages us to kill our pain and just keep going. Don't deal with the root of imbalance/dis-ease, just kill the symptoms and keep going.
If witchcraft has taught me anything, it has taught me reverence for the world around me, for myself, for ritual, etc. In the framework of reverence ie: sacred space, these gifts of the Mother can be tools to connect with deeper parts of ourselves. They can also be powerful allies in creating paradigm shifts in consciousness which I feel is absolutely necessary for creating a peaceful, non-patriarchal/war culture.
P.S. We empower/disempower things by how we think about them and the language we use to describe them. If Marijuana is a "drug", well so is St John's wort, Kava, or any other mood/body/mind altering herb.
Hope this is the sort of discourse you are looking for. Thanks for the opportunity to share my opinions.
Blessings,
Maddy

Hmmm... up until a few months ago, I would have said, "No Way!" Recently, though I've experienced a bit more and drawing upon my experiences, I'd have to say that they should usually not have a part. In unusual or uncommon situations, when used to explore a different state of mind, maybe. But, in all things, moderation!

Drugs have been used for thousands of years by shamans and native people alike for thousands of years in their sacred rituals. Obviously back then there was no one saying they were bad for you and that they are/should be illegal. Therefore it was not just because it was "cool" or to rebel, there must have been some palpable reason why they took the drugs. I have not tried peyote, but I have tried marijuana and magic mushrooms. Personally I think you get too spaced out and stupid to concentrate on anthing much less a spell or ritual on marijuana. On mushrooms, however- my experience with this was intriguing. For me (and I'm not advocating drug use in any way) they opened up my mind and let me look at my life from a different perspective. I could truly see why they are called the "shamanistic drug". Not many mundanes would be into this drug, it's just too esoteric. But anyway, concerning the question- it depends on the drug and your motivation, but personally I think occasional use for truly ritual purposes are okay. However, if you do drugs simply to rebel or to be "cool", I think you're defeating the original purpose. Blessed Be!!!

Cocaine is a natural substance. A great many commonly used pharmaceuticals, from aspirin to certain cancer treatments, are derivatives of plants. I would like to add, in response to the question, that the Rede includes ourselves. "Natural" is not synonymous with harmless and the individual should carefully consider the risks and benefits of any action. I have personally never found it necessary to include drugs in my rituals. Others I know do. When considering the use of psychogenic aids in rituals in other cultures and traditions, please consider that those who use(d) them had a lifetime (or several) of cultural and spiritual context into which they can place their experiences.

No. Natural drugs don't have a place in the Craft. I have nothing against using them in general, but I don't think they have any real Magickal purpose, or that they should be used in any rituals. Besides, if people thought we were all a bunch of drugees and nothing else, people'd hate us more than some already do.
Blessed Be!

I think natural drugs are here for our use, but like anything else it must be used in a moderate manner.
Now. the use of these drugs in your Craft can be a tool like any others you may use. Its your Craft, Your life and your choice.

It depends on your approach. Do you feel you must get high or have a buzz to get intouch with your spirit guides, inner feelings, personal power.... then you should clean up your life and find yourself un"altered".

If however, you you occasonally use a plant to explore deeper areas it can be a positive experience.

I think that marijuana or mushrooms may be a nice way to initially open the door to the astral for someone who's never been there before. I don't think it would be in a witch's best interest to use drugs to reach a higher state of awareness if he or she can do it on his/her own. I think that part of growing as a witch and as a person is in developing those skills for yourself. Of course, I'm not suggesting that anyone who uses natural drugs to enhance their rituals or meditations isn't using good judgement. I think it's a matter of individual tastes.

I, personally, have no problem with the use of these substances. i would stress, though, the importance of respect and moderation.

I think that "Natural" pot is OK, I disagree that POT is bad and I agree that it is a good hypertensive and an anti spasmodic. I feel that it would also help a large number of ailments if prepared properly not just Smoked, but it aind bad that way either......
I beleive that the Ancients all used the natural effects of many drugs in rituals,the Egyptian to the Mayan and the Celts to the Moors. With Moderation and with reverece and respect.

hallucinogens and euphorics.... if they're used just for fun or relaxation, no, they're not valid tools. but if they are used as tools... foci or intensifiers for trance states - then yes,their use can be validated.

I Feel that drugs natural or otherwise have no place in the craft. Drugs make one stupid and lazy

I am somewhat intrigued by the statement that all replies are to be posted anonymously, and by the comment of one respondent that this seems to be something of a "touchy subject". Is this, I wonder, because it is understood (but unspoken) that the only substances the average pagan is likely to be interested in are illegal ones? And if so, perhaps that says something about *some* of the people now being attracted to paganism and about their reasons for wanting to do so!
There are, of course, plenty of substances which are useful and powerful and which just happen not to be illegal. Many pagans, for example, happily use damiana or mugwort in tea or incense to achieve a "relaxed" state - and of course these substances are entirely safe used in that way. Other substances are legal but not exactly safe - anyone including yew resin in incence and getting too close to the smoke is in for a rather unpleasant (and probably one-way) trip.
There ather easily available herbs which are also useful - the dried flowers of the broom plant, for instance, can be mixed with tobacco smoked in exactly the same way as dope. Although I am not a smoker and therefore not tried it personally, I am told by those who have done so that the effects are virtually identical to those produced by dope. The main difference is that broom (planta genista) is free (if you collect if from the wild) and legal and you can probably buy a plant at a garden center and grow it completely legally in your garden.
As far as I am concerned, although I very rarely use anything myself, I am certainly not going to criticise anyone else for moderate use of any psychotropic or hallucinogenic substance - but I do challenge the sort of mentality that feels that somehow the very illegality of the substance is an important factor.

Native Americans have used marijuana in ritual practices for thousands of years, and as far as I am aware, some tribes still use it. These drugs don't have to be manufactured, they're natural, and if used wisely could certainly aid in meditation. However, just because we think it should be right doesn't make it so. We can't go against established laws to suit our personal preferences.

I am troubled by the use of drugs in ritual and wicca as a whole. First, all the drug studies I have seen either show drugs to be harmful to the user, or are inconclusive. I have seen the effects of chronic marijuana use on my brother. It is a gateway drug to harder narcotics. It does have a detrimental effect on the memory, energy level, and fertility of the user. This is in direct violation of the Wiccan Rede. Until more conclusive studies come out on the long-term effects of these drugs I would be inclined to find another way to reach Alpha states.
Second, like everything else in the Craft, ie tarot, athames, wands, runes, incense, candles, etc. , these drugs should not be seen as a necessary part of the Craft. No one should feel that they need these drugs to practice Wicca. The first book I ever read on the Craft and everyone since reinforce the idea that all the tools are only props and can should be used only until they can be discarded. Drugs are a type of tool that makes it difficult to discard them. They build up a dependence, both physical and mental, that is contrary to all the teachings I have ever received.
As in all things, the use of drugs should be up to the individual, but I hope people will not take the easy route and/or disregard the potential harm they can do themselves with drugs.
Blessed Be to all.

There is both an historical precedent and logical reason for "allowing" natural psychotropics into our new/old religion. Most shamanistic, earth-centered, and animistic practices involve some type of use of these substances, and have done so for many thousands of years. Mild naturals help us block out the junk that clouds our spiritual selves. It is "natural" for us to let these herbs and fungi into our practices, as long as they are taken carefully, for the purpose of achieving a more positive, heightened state of awareness. Abuse of any substance, natural or not, violates our trust with God and Goddess, and doesn't follow our rede.
"Nuff Said"
Lugh

This, for some reason, seems to be a touchy subject. The truth is blatantly obvious. The Goddess provided us with a means to easily acheive the 'alpha' state, or meditative state. Visions, divinations, and understanding aren't just side effects of ingesting these plants, they're gifts to humankind. With responsable use (anything that is wonderfull is potentially mentally adictive), there is no reason why we shouldn't use them like we use every other herb and plant on the planet.
B*B

I have a difficult time achieving a meditative state, and its not for lack of trying many different methods. I've found that marijuana, used as a sacred herb, helps to tear down the veil and allow meditation and insight to occur. If used wisely and for the sole purpose of spiritual reflection and insight, it can be of great benefit. Just make certain that it does not go beyond that use and become a recreational pastime. Otherwise, it will fail to do any good.

If you can use them without abusing them, and be considerate of others then I think it's ok. If you are at anothers circle it would be polite to ask first and if it's "no" then respect their wishes. If you're doing solitaire work, then it's up to the individual. I have used hemp in divination rituals and have had good results, for me it helps open up my third eye.
Dave

Being in the pharmaceutical industry (R&D), and an ex marijuana user (they test now). I am absolutely positive that if clinical trials were held, marijuana would turn out to be an excellant, antihypertensive agent, as well as for glaucoma, and possibly some psychotic disorders. I hope that the state of California starts a president in the investigation of this wonderful compound.
Wayne