The fact remains that the drugs you list are illegal. How many of us have jobs that we risk to meet with our Covens?To attend private and public rituals? To wear a pentacle in public? To teach our children The Craft? As a professional educator, I can look someone in the eye and say, "I am a practicing Witch." I can say, "Witchcraft is a healthy, life-affirming religion." I can even be expected to be taken serioiusly by some people who judge me by my character regardless of their own religious beliefs. But the single issue of drug use at pagan events could damage or destroy my credibility quickly and permanently, and even threaten my job. All I ask of those of you who use, is that you remember this when you bring pot-laced browies to a ritual, or light up at a bonfire. When we put everything we have on the line for our beliefs, the unnecessary use of drugs by others potentially threatens to take away our freedom to practice them openly. Is this worth the risk for anyone? "An it harm none..." Wiccans and other Pagans are responsible for being honest with themselves about the implications of their behavior on those with whom they share this faith.
Date Added: 3-10-02

My answer to this is one of great pain. Even at my -of late- 13 years of age, I have seen how drugs affect the mind -and even body- in the most grotesque way. The Great Mother and Earthly Father had no intent for us to harvest their greens, process them, then use them for pure pleasure, promoting a world of murder and other crime! Marijuana, cocaine, hash, etc. is one of the big things that Christians use against us as a stereotype. I know that all people have their right to opinionate, but so do I, and I say that such terrible drugs are but black Magick, because of the Evil that comes from them (death, killing, retardation, etc.). Please, if you use any drug, in the name of our High Parents and of the Deities who march beside them, STOP this evil habit, and reminisce under a life of ease and innocence.

Thankyou for reading what I have posted. If you would like to e-mail me, please use this adress:
KrazyKritterKong@Yahoo.com.

Love to all,
Owen
Date Added: 3-10-02

PEYOTE is a all night ceremony. ONE HAS TO PARTICIPATE and sing peyote songs. It lasts all night long.WHILE YOUR RELATIVES WERE IN EUROPE ,mine were here doing ceremony ..Years ago we also drank holly leaves,they are 10 times stronger than coffee,that keptpeople awake to continue the ceremony. We are earth connected.It is much different than a youngster, wanting to get high.
Date Added: 3-10-02

MM,

Though an avid user of "mary-jane", I do not feel that the use of any drug is necessary when practicing magick. I often smoke grass (living in The Netherlands where the law is much more in sync with modern culture imho this is not a big deal at all), but never before any form of ritual magick. For the magick I feel once senses have to be clean, or at least as clean as possible. The use of any mindaltering substance may be condoned in magickal practice, but I feel that the best magick I have worked has been done when my mind was just that,...MY mind, not my mind on drugs (for want of a better word).

Some cultures rely on natural substances which enlighten and enheighten the sense before rituals begin. I tend to think f several south american indian tribes which use natural products, but I fear that the use of these drugs may also cloud ones vision.

As we know marihuana enhances ones current mood, so if I were in a particularly vile mood when starting out with magick, I might go overboard with spelss and/or incantations. I feel that as a wiccan (or even just a regular Joe) one has the right to live ones life as one wants. You suffer the consequences for your own actions in life so if you want to snort cocaine or shoot up with heroine, fine by me, just don't come knocking on my door when you need a fix or money and don't go out robbing and mugging others to get your kicks. If you have a habit, make sure you can support the habit or else get rid of the monkey.

The law may be a little to lenient sometimes here when a drugaddict who has mugged several people can get off almost without any form of punishment (yeah 60 hours community service is what they get) after pleading guilty but with circumstances leading up to the crime being used as an excuse. (Sorry your honor, but I had a bad childhood, no-one pushed my pram so now I'm a dope-addict and have to rob old people to feed my monkey) That's a load of Bovine Fertilizer

Back on subject though, I think I have made myself clear enough. In my opinion any form of enhancement is not okay, but if YOU feel it makes your magick work better then who am I to judge you?

BB
Date Added: 3-10-02

I do not believe in the use of drugs. There is meditation that works just fine. With drugs it messes up your thoughts and do not got the true message. I have asked this question my self to others and I get a mixed message. So It is your preference. Me no way.
Date Added: 3-10-02

As far as I am concerned there is no harm in useing "natural drugs" as long as they are all natural. They were put here, as was every thing else, for our use, in what ever form that would be. If it is some drug that is being misused or altard by humans then I do not believe that it is right to use them for any reason. As long as the person useing the drug is responsible in the use of the drug I do not see how it could harm any one. I do believe that you need to be old enough to understand the power of the drug. But this is, of cource, only my opinion.
Wendi
Date Added: 3-10-02

It should be a personal decision made by responsable adults. 'And it harm none, do what thou will'... One should be careful not to let this become the focus, though....

Regards;
Anonymous
Date Added: 3-10-02

Merry Meet! I think it's great that there's a forum on such a diverse topic such as ritual drug use. In the end, everything should be up to the individual, depending on how s/he reacts to the certain drug. I think it's incredibly stupid that the US government spends so much money on the drug war when it could be using the money for education and more productive means. If marijuana, peyote, "shrooms" etc. work for someone, hey, by all means use 'em! Who is anyone to judge? For some people, these might be great ways for people to Spirit Quest and perform other shamanic ceremonies. But since they come from the Mother, they must be treated with respect. Anything which is not used in moderation probably won't turn out good. If someone wants to use these drugs in a ritual, let 'em. However, ritual should not be an excuse to get messed up. Ritual should always be about connecting to your deities, but if marijuana et al. help you bridge your consciousness towards Them, hey, all the more! ~E.
Date Added: 11-22-01

This is a great question, another one to go with this would be "Do you believe that magic only exists in the mind or is it something that really effects all?", After 25+ years in application of magic, I know it is real. though in my younger years I thought drugs were part of it all, it wasn't until I freed myself of that belief that I was able to see how much just a thought could affect events and people around me. Magic isn't based on how your alter your mind, it is how strong you want a/an event or circumstance to manifest, but when doing this another question you should ask yourself "what price am I willing to pay."

If anyone has questions, or would like me to expand on "Magic, beyond mind and books" feel free to email me
Glenn
Date Added: 11-22-01

Regarding the issue of using "natural drugs" during rites, or in general, seems to be viewed by many as black & white, either you do or you don't, and many comments made about this issue were made in fear. Some have said, "Do drugs, hurt yourself, forget who you are, become a crack addict, run naked through the streets, etc, etc, etc. Are we still talking about natural drugs? Anything that is altered by man, like alcohol, is not a natural drug; wine contains sulfites, and alcohol was invented accidently & then perfected through various "technological" procedures, even if it only involves grapes and a barrel. Even though it is not a natural drug, it is not harmful either unless it is abused and should not be shunned because others have abused it. Others have abused Witchcraft by practicing black magic but we obviously aren't going shun it either. Other unnatural drugs such as cocaine, crack, etc. are very harmful to the body, no matter what quantity is taken, and that does break the Wiccan Law, Harm None. Also, avoiding marijuana, peony, etc just because it is "illegal" is putting your faith and trust in the assholes that have given us witches a bad name in the first place - Politics is built upon and funded by Christian views and beliefs whether we like it or not. However, natural drugs can also become destructive if not used effectively. The point is, one must have BALANCE. You can be against using "natural drugs" because you have a tendency to become dependent or because you do not like the altered state they give; but opposing them for the reasons that it is illegal, it is harmful (not everyone abuses), and it will make you crazy is foolish nonesense based on fear. And a fearful witch makes just about as much sense as a blind doctor.

Blessed Be.
Kaylx
Date Added: 11-22-01

Hi, again-

Well, now I'm browsing Witch's Brew Asks, and wanted to add my two cents on the use of drugs in "the Craft" and/or rituals:

I feel that the choice whether or not to use drugs in a spiritual quest is a personal one, not to be condemmed or pushed by anyone else. Having said this, my own opinion is that for most practitioners, (whether experienced or just beginning), it would be highly beneficial to approach the Craft and similar spiritual studies without drug influence. I feel it is very important to learn how to be in touch with the Earth and with our own bodies while totally sober. When I feel like I am completely aware of myself and my environment, and can reach enlightened states on my own, perhaps then I will incorporate mild natural drugs (marijuana, mushrooms, perhaps peyote someday) into my studies, with care. Personally, however, I feel I am still a long way from mastering myself, and I do not think I will make drugs a part of my spiritual quest anytime soon. I cannot speak for anyone other than myself, and this is how I feel. Spiritual studies aside, I feel that legalization of the aforementioned drugs would be good for society. I am not, however, convinced that other drugs are as potentially beneficial. Drugs such as Cocaine, Heroin, even LSD and Ecstasy, among others, are indeed created by humans specifically to alter consciousness in some way. Though they are derived from natural plants and chemicals, they are not themselves natural. Nature is wise beyond our ken, and there are many wonderfully healing medicinal herbs and plants in nature which become dangerous as soon as the active ingredients are isolated and used alone. Make no mistake, "man-made" drugs and chemicals are just that, and are potentially very dangerous. Please take care.

Finally, a note on alcohol: though I use it very occasionally, I feel it can be just as dangerous as the "man-made" drugs I mentioned above. In fact, it may be more dangerous because it seems so "normal" and innocuous. It is a mind-altering chemical, and highly addictive to boot. Particularly if you have an "addictive" personality, you may benefit greatly by abstaining from alcohol in your spiritual work. Only you can know what is right for your quest. Learn to listen to your body and your inner spirit, so that your choices lead you down the path best for your growth and understanding.

(I apologize for such a long posting- I was reading the other comments on the subject, and felt compelled to add this).
Blessed Be
Date Added: 11-22-01

I do not think Natural drugs fit into the craft any where. We believe in "An It Harm None" So why would we want to do drugs Like Marijuana, Mushrooms or Peyote, ect., ect. When we know it can harm us. It can cause us to hurt other people around us, some drugs can cause us to be slower or less aware of whats going on around us. Some can make us hallucinate and that could cause us to do things and not even know we are doing it. Plus when we do something like drugs so much of it gets stored in our fatty tissue and our reproductive organs so if we ever had children after doing these drugs then it could harm them by causing them to be handicapped or even still born. So I say NO. Drugs do NOT fit in the craft!!!
Date Added: 11-22-01

I've seen a lot of people fall hard with drug. My mother left my dad for a year or so, due to heavy drug and alcohol use. He still can't hold a job. I have pot/acid/drug head friends that can't coherently put together an intelligent sentence. I even have friends from high school who are no longer people. The drug has just taken over. These things kill you, slowly, but surely.

So marijuana is a natural plant. So is coca. So is opium.

Each is fairly harmless, in small moderate doses. Even theripeutic.

If you can't think clearly, or you are stressed, maybe take you should stock of what's going on in your head before you go for the drugs. Listen to it before you go drown it out with something or other. Maybe you're missing something.
Date Added: 11-22-01

I would half to agree and disagree at the same time because I've smoked for long time for years and years it's just like every thing else don in life. If you do it for a long time then it becomes habit forming, but not really addictive but it is too. Ya now it's fucked up like that.

I've done lots of acid too but that is a different store... That shit is sow addictive I was hooked the 1st time I did it cause it was wonderful! But it's BAD SHIT it will alter your mind for ever even the first time you try it. That is how bad this shit is.

I've seen my skin fall off, turn into maggots, seen my self covered in bugs, thought I was in a different dimension before, I've also seen people mold into them self's, fall apart,Ive also had the best times of my life tripen out. It's also one of those fucked up things.

It's the same with every thing you do (the drugs/alcohol) and it comes with experience. But do what you will ,as you will just be careful with the toys you choose to play with cause they could turn around and play with you.
Date Added: 11-22-01

This can be a touchy subject for many but some views on drugs are totally off-base. Things as psilocybin (shrooms); LSD; peyote and mescaline; pot; heroin; cocaine; and even up to jimson weed are not what they may be heard as. To many non-substance religious people, abuse of a drug is idolism of the drug. Many Native American tribes still use jimson and peyote for religious purposes. Yes many of these natural drugs are poisonous especially psilocybin since shroom hunters run the risk of picking up lethal fungi which could kill or cause severe organ damage within an hour of induction. Drugs have been around since prehistoric times. for all we know the first one to eat an apple was running a risk since he may not have known if it was a potent substance.

Also to this subject, pot with its main drug tetrahydrocannibinol is one to many as a religious drug. You cannot stop one from doing a drug! Things happen to people and to many it's drugs. I'm not going to kill you people but I just wanted to clear the subject drugs are a thing in this world, they hurt, they bring to many fun and enlightenment, and you have to know these facts.

Thanks for listening me through. This can be a touchy subject for many but some views on drugs are totally off-base. Things as psilocybin (shrooms); LSD; peyote and mescaline; pot; heroin; cocaine; and even up to jimson weed are not what they may be heard as. To many non-substance religious people, abuse of a drug is idolism of the drug. Many Native American tribes still use jimson and peyote for religious purposes. Yes many of these natural drugs are poisonous especially psilocybin since shroom hunters run the risk of picking up lethal fungi which could kill or cause severe organ damage within an hour of induction. Drugs have been around since prehistoric times. for all we know the first one to eat an apple was running a risk since he may not have known if it was a potent substance. Also to this subject, pot with its main drug tetrahydrocannibinol is one to many as a religious drug. You cannot stop one from doing a drug! Things happen to people and to many it's drugs. I'm not going to kill you people but I just wanted to clear the subject drugs are a thing in this world, they hurt, they bring to many fun and enlightenment, and you have to know these facts. Thanks for listening me through. While it is true that many people abuse drugs, there are many people who do not, and those that abuse it seem to ruin it for those who don't. Marijuana has been on this earth far longer than you or I. It has obviously been put here for a purpose. Native Americans have been using drugs for healing and rituals and to gain wisdom normally beyond their reach. It is all natural, unlike alcohol which can have deadly effects. I've never heard of anyone overdosing on marijuana. Unlike alcohol, which in large doses can kill you, can make you completely unaware of your surroundings, or even who you are, marijuana is nothing like that. It is relaxing, it can bring you to a higher state of conscienceness, and make you more receptive to the Universal Energy, which is valuable for any type of healing. I am a practitioner of the healing arts, have been for 5 years, and I use it in my rituals. I find it helpful to gain the energy I need to perform a successful healing. It's not like I spend all day every day stoned out of my mind, that's just wrong and those who do that are stunting their spiritual growth. I personally believe it should be legalized, as it is very effective when used medicinally,spiritually, and physically. Those that wish to keep it illegal are the power hungry beaurocrats who are scared of the populace having something they cannot control. They also have not done their homework on the subject or they would realize that it is a very beneficial plant in so many ways besides drug use. We could save the rainforests if we would just start growing hemp for everyday use, clothes, paper, rope, the list goes on and on!!!! We need to send this country a wake up call about the many benefits of marijuana!!!!
Date Added: 1-22-01

I think that natural drugs, which I believe alcohol, seeing that it is naturally fermented vegetable matter, should be included on your list. Don't the majority of us use wine in circle?

According to some authors, there is something called "The 8 fold path to the enlightenment" basically 8 steps that are needed to attain the correct setting for magick, and one of those 8 paths is drugs and/or alcohol. As far as illegal drugs, they are just that, illegal. Whether we like it or not. Is using them in circle 'living by right action'? Nope. But... there are plenty of herbs that have a mild psychtropic effect that can be used in incense, which I do use occasionally for specific magickal workings.

BB
Faunus
Date Added: 1-22-01

No Drugs Or Alcohol at all.

They are not only illegal but they you in an altered state. You want go into an altered state naturally with your mind free and clear. They cloud your judgment and could cause some serious problems. Picture this you decide to do a full moon ritual Skyclad and you decide to take some kind of drug; you start to chant ,you forget where you are , you start running around town naked ,chanting . One or two things are going to happen, you go to jail or you get thrown in the lunny bin. It is hard enough to get the bad image of Witch out peoples heads , we really need that now do we?

Bless Be,
In the name of the Mother Goddess,
Cheri
Date Added: 1-22-01